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Post by auda on Apr 25, 2021 18:18:42 GMT
Side note, but I've always wondered why it's Pearlshipping and not Diamondshipping. Believe it or not, Diamondshipping was taken many years before Diamond and Pearl was even a thing. uhh... it's really not something I'm into. Lets just say it comes from Pokémon Live!, the live musical show. But even so I also wondered this, considering Pearl is the name of the rival in the DP games. Platinum probably didn't exist yet at the time the name Pearlshipping was made
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Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 25, 2021 20:40:03 GMT
IceArceus Haha, you mean they just look good together? I agree. Something about their designs and color palettes looks really good together. And the super serious anime guy with the upbeat anime girl appeals to me. I think the scene where they swim through the Luvdisc was pretty shippy. But Ash putting her in the pod, no. The way Ash saved May was certainly cute. But I saw it as an older/twin brother taking care of his younger sister. Remember, he put Pikachu and Manaphy in there too. And I mean, Ash is always saving literally everyone. Friends, strangers, Pokémon. I get tired of shippers acting like characters rescuing each other is a 'hint.' It isn't. It's just the decent thing to do for someone who is about to DIE or get seriously injured. Ex: May saving Drew from drowning isn't a Contestshipping 'hint.' And no, I don't think any of the times Ash and Dawn saved each other are 'hints' for Pearlshipping. Just my opinion. Omg I looked it up...it's Giovanni x Delia Ketchum, lol. No thank you!
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Post by IceArceus on Apr 27, 2021 22:59:48 GMT
I think the scene where they swim through the Luvdisc was pretty shippy. But Ash putting her in the pod, no. The way Ash saved May was certainly cute. But I saw it as an older/twin brother taking care of his younger sister. Remember, he put Pikachu and Manaphy in there too. And I mean, Ash is always saving literally everyone. Friends, strangers, Pokémon. I get tired of shippers acting like characters rescuing each other is a 'hint.' It isn't. It's just the decent thing to do for someone who is about to DIE or get seriously injured. Ex: May saving Drew from drowning isn't a Contestshipping 'hint.' And no, I don't think any of the times Ash and Dawn saved each other are 'hints' for Pearlshipping. Just my opinion. I think what I "like" about the rescue scene isn't like, the emotional depth of the scene or anything, nor am I going to say that the rescue scene proves that Advanceshipping has an advantage or whatever, I think just as with Ikarishipping, I just like aesthetics of the scene. The atmosphere with the background of the temple and Ash putting his hands on May's shoulders and tucking her into the pod was just very idk, maybe sweet to me? Like, it's just a pretty scene for me. And if Pearl had a scene like that it would make for a nice screenshot. Haha maybe it's not a very deep reason for liking something but I'm glad I can look at Pokémon in a more casual light these days than I used to
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Post by auda on Apr 28, 2021 3:20:46 GMT
Ash is always saving literally everyone. Friends, strangers, Pokémon. I get tired of shippers acting like characters rescuing each other is a 'hint.' It isn't. It's just the decent thing to do for someone who is about to DIE or get seriously injured. Waah? Are you saying that Ash trying to sacrifice himself to save everyone in the Lucario movie wasn't an Ash x Everyone hint? I know what you're saying here and agree to an extent. While saving someone doesn't count for anything in a shipping sense, the way it happens certainly could. Reaction speeds can even play a part, though everybody is different depending on the situation. I guess I'm saying there's a huge asterisk on this topic. The very first time someone's life is saved in the entire show was in the first episode, when Misty fishes Ash and Pikachu out of a river seconds before they'd be eaten by a Gyarados (If you don't count Ash running off with Pikachu in the first place after he angered the Spearow). I wouldn't completely count it as a shipping thing, she didn't even know they were there. That's not even to mention the nice big ol well deserved slap for endangering his Pokémon. Here's an example of "saving" someone very early on: Episode 3. James' Koffing sludges Pikachu's face making him unable to battle (just go with it). Ash picks Pikachu up and tries to hand him over to Misty, telling her to protect him from Team Rocket. She just stares at him for a few seconds and he has to snap her out of it. This is something I would consider a ship scene, as one sided as it may have been here. Especially since, just minutes before, Misty slaps and yells at him for his bad call using Caterpie against Pidgeotto. It was a triple hit combo within the same episode when it's mentioned again right after Caterpie evolves. They really nailed the tsundere-ness of Misty right off the bat. In that case, it wasn't the one being saved having the ship moment. These things can come at all kinds of different angles. A more straightforward one would be the time Ash saves the girl from the Silver Conference episodes and she falls for him. She definitely took that as a "shipping moment" of her own, though like you said, Ash just saves anyone in trouble
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Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 28, 2021 6:01:55 GMT
auda Exactly. It was an accident and is pretty much irrelevant (imo) because there was no motivation on her part. But sure, there are times in the show where it's made obvious a rescue is indeed motivated by a crush. Like Drew, for example, helping May behind the scenes. Or, like you said, a rescue causes someone to develop an obvious crush on their rescuer. Like Serena with Ash, of course. I just meant I get tired of EVERY rescue scene automatically being taken as a ship hint. As if a crush is the only reason anyone would show concern or get distraught over someone else in danger. And maybe this is why I still take the non-shippers side on a lot of things. I used Ash as an example because he always shows the same amount of emotion, no matter who he is saving. Except for Pikachu. He does act a little more distraught when Pikachu is in danger. But just because their relationship is deep and special, doesn't mean their relationship is romantic now does it? Yes, I do count that. So Ash rescuing Pikachu is technically (and appropriately) 'the very first time someone's life is saved in the entire show.' Ash x Pikachu confirmed. /s And it being the first somehow makes it more important or special? When it was a complete accident? That's definitely debatable. In my eyes, she had no business slapping him. It was absolutely not deserved. She had no idea what had happened, how Pikachu got hurt, or anything about Ash and Pikachu's situation. Ash was trying his best and was literally willing to die for Pikachu. She was being an overdramatic b!tch about it. Misty being told to protect Pikachu isn't a rescue and isn't even relevant to what I was trying to say in my post. Also, her slapping him was, again, completely uncalled for. All different kinds of type-disadvantage matchups happen during Pokémon battles, most of the time unavoidable. What's the big deal? Again, she was just being a b!tch. Hence why I've hated her from the start. Yes, Misty rescuing Ash in the 2nd movie was a ship moment. She spends the whole movie bitching at him, but rescues him when he's drowning. I've always hated this scene because she treats him like she doesn't care about him. Yet what motivates her to rescue him? Her stupid crush. And she just goes right back to treating him like crap after that. If she really cared about him, she wouldn't. Yeah, Abuseshipping is so cute. /s
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Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 28, 2021 6:19:58 GMT
IceArceusYeah, that's how I feel about Ikarishipping. I know my reasons for liking it are shallow. I guess it's my...what do you shippers call it? Guilty pleasure ship? I think that's the right term? Also I wanted to point out, it's cool how Ikari and Pearl are such opposites. Pearl is a case of similars attract. Ikari is about opposites attracting. They're like foils of each other (just like how Ash and Paul were foil characters). Makes for some interesting analysis and comparisons.
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Post by auda on Apr 29, 2021 2:58:02 GMT
My entire point was that it didn't matter, even if it were to be taken as the first time it happened. I did mention because of that reason and it being the first episode. Some might consider that to be extra shippy, as I feel you are implying I am. Again, I don't. If they had mentioned this scene in the show more, like as much as the whole running from Spearow thing, possibly. As it is, no.
You're right, it is debatable whether the slap itself was deserved or not, going by how much actual information she had at the time. All she really knows for sure is that Pikachu was in very bad shape. As viewers we know it was indeed Ash's fault that Pikachu was hurt. And as a viewer I'd say he needed that wake-me-up since he seemingly forgets about Pikachu being hurt when Misty asks about it. This is as opposed to, since you mentioned it in your post, the second movie, where Ash's eye is still on the ball even immediately after he wakes up from being knocked out. If she had punched him or something worse, I'd say otherwise, but it was just a slap. I'd hardly call that overdramatic. She looks worried for Pikachu more than anything and tells Ash where the closest Pokémon Center is, albeit in a harsh tone as she believes he is the reason Pikachu is hurt.
It isn't technically a "rescue", I suppose. Pikachu isn't even taken yet. Nor might it be an immediate life or death situation. I know you're trying to say is "a character directly saving the other character". However, I would still call it "relevant" as Team Rocket did want to take Pikachu away to enslave him or whatever it is they'd end up doing with him. Honestly, it's played for laughs in almost every episode, but right here feels like it's especially threatening since they're alone in the woods and Ash is an inexperienced trainer with only one (new) Pokémon able to fight back against two. In fact, he still wants to go by the rules even when Team Rocket is ganging up on him, which is something he just stops doing against them as the show goes on. Him handing Pikachu to Misty for her to protect meant he didn't have complete confidence in himself. Would it help drive the point home if he had told her to run with Pikachu right then and there? Sure.
As for the second slap... Keep in mind this is early on when they might not have known how far they wanted to take some concepts, on top of ham-fisting video game logic into the show. That being said, this wasn't just a case of Water vs Fire or Ice vs Dragon. This was Bird vs Bug, potentially life threatening. So this would tie back into the first episode where she thought Ash was the reason Pikachu was hurt. This time she's seeing it happen with her own eyes. Even though she hates bugs, she found no pleasure in seeing Caterpie get hurt the way it did. Hence, the slap. And it wasn't just a one and done slap with no explanation. She told him exactly what went wrong there and tried to teach him a lesson about "trainer's judgement", type advantages and all that. He did have a way to avoid the problem altogether with Pikachu. Instead, he was too excited about his first Pokémon catch and wanted to use it without thinking of the consequences. Ash does have a tendency to go into a battle with a (avoidable) type-disadvantage, but he always has some sort of plan to back it up. Not this time.
I can't change your mind on this kind of thing, nor am I even trying to here. Misty does spend the better part of the first half of the movie angry at Ash. This only begins after Melody starts asking questions about her relationship with Ash. Before that she was fine. She, of course just as any kid that age, strongly refuses to admit her feelings, even to herself, especially not in this way. Same thing could be said about one of those early Orange Island episodes when Team Rocket outright calls Ash and Misty a couple. Or even the final Orange league gym, where Ash was acting just as jealous and dismissive as Misty when he asks if she wants to join him to get the treasures from the islands in the movie. This isn't some character trait or abuse, it's just a kid thing.
You can advance all the way over to Advance (sorry, just as horrendous of a pun as Misty's) to also see a similar thing between Ash and May. AG072 "The Bicker the Better", Ash gets angry at May for taking so long getting up in the morning. They spend most of the episode angry at each other and for that reason even get called a "couple" by the characters of the day. This episode and the whole idea of them fighting really came out of nowhere; it felt so unnatural and forced. I'm not sure what the people who ship this think of this episode, I'd be up for listening.
Back on track with the second movie: Melody sees right through Misty and spends the majority of the movie egging her on and trying to get her to admit her feelings, which she ultimately succeeds in doing. It didn't help Misty's jealousy that Ash was so enthusiastic about the whole ceremony, which Misty was taking the wrong way with her, at the time, one-track mind. Within the movie, after she saves him, Misty isn't being mean anymore. She tries to calm Ash's mom down for a second when she comes up yelling at him herself. If you're talking about some later episode "treating him like crap", then well, I don't know what to say. Having just watched through these episodes recently, I don't recall her "treating him like crap" without some sort of reason. Normally what happens is that he first says something that angers her or makes himself an easy target for a joke. I want to say every character has taken advantage of the latter.
I also find it hypocritical in criticizing Pokeshipping for being "abusive" when you at any point considered shipping Paul with anyone. He's been shown to be an actual abusive person multiple times. I didn't see him as just your typical "serious" or lone wolf type of character. It was that annoying "I don't need friends" kind of way, just to have a anti-power-of-friendship type of character. It was just not done well at all.
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Post by IceArceus on Apr 29, 2021 15:48:24 GMT
I guess it's my...what do you shippers call it? Guilty pleasure ship? I think that's the right term? haha I wouldn't even consider myself a real shipper anymore these days. But yeah I would call Ikarishipping a guilty pleasure ship. The fanart is pleasing to the eye but like to talk about it more seriously unless Paul really changed himself, it would be quite dysfunctional audaIt's really interesting to hear your perspectives on Pokeshipping! I was too young to watch it when the OG series first came out, but I vaguely remember my first experience of watching Pokémon was watching...maybe this OVA with the original cast where they all left their Pokémon at this playground? And also another OVA where they rescued this exeggcute. And then the Entei movie. And then I lost interest in Pokémon for a while and then I got a little older and got back into it and watched DP. Part of the reason I know I have an affinity with Pearlshipping is that for me, DP basically functioned as the OG series and that I am lowkey quite sentimental. So I wonder if I would have shipped something else if I had watched that first.
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Post by PikaFUSION on Apr 29, 2021 17:12:46 GMT
I guess it's my...what do you shippers call it? Guilty pleasure ship? I think that's the right term? haha I wouldn't even consider myself a real shipper anymore these days. But yeah I would call Ikarishipping a guilty pleasure ship. The fanart is pleasing to the eye but like to talk about it more seriously unless Paul really changed himself, it would be quite dysfunctional auda It's really interesting to hear your perspectives on Pokeshipping! I was too young to watch it when the OG series first came out, but I vaguely remember my first experience of watching Pokémon was watching...maybe this OVA with the original cast where they all left their Pokémon at this playground? And also another OVA where they rescued this exeggcute. And then the Entei movie. And then I lost interest in Pokémon for a while and then I got a little older and got back into it and watched DP. Part of the reason I know I have an affinity with Pearlshipping is that for me, DP basically functioned as the OG series and that I am lowkey quite sentimental. So I wonder if I would have shipped something else if I had watched that first. Same, I'm not a huge shipper these days. I think I know the identity of those OVAs, they are actually shorts that played before the Pokémon Movies: The playground one: Pikachu's Vacation (https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/PK01) The Exeggcute one: Pikachu's Rescue Adventure (https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/PK04)
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Post by auda on Apr 29, 2021 19:28:07 GMT
auda It's really interesting to hear your perspectives on Pokeshipping! I was too young to watch it when the OG series first came out, but I vaguely remember my first experience of watching Pokémon was watching...maybe this OVA with the original cast where they all left their Pokémon at this playground? And also another OVA where they rescued this exeggcute. And then the Entei movie. And then I lost interest in Pokémon for a while and then I got a little older and got back into it and watched DP. Part of the reason I know I have an affinity with Pearlshipping is that for me, DP basically functioned as the OG series and that I am lowkey quite sentimental. So I wonder if I would have shipped something else if I had watched that first. Thanks! I feel like I'm just making up for lost time here since I joined up so late. A lot of my posts feel like giant walls of text to me giving me second thoughts of even posting at all.
It's possible that the first series you start with could be the one push you'd need to stick with it's themes and stand by it's side and all that. Even for me, I did start with the first season way back when it was still new, but stopped just after the 8th gym. I didn't even watch the Indigo league tournament at the time! Literally the only reason for this was because the show was on so early in the morning or immediately after school. Otherwise I'd have kept watching. Seriously, the whole "Saturday morning cartoons" thing blows. I want to sleep in! lol, anyway, I'd check in on the show every few years, just to see where they were at. Always told myself I'd find a way to watch the whole thing. I was still playing the games after all, my life wasn't completely Pokémon-less. It wasn't until the show was in the middle of DP that I decided to finally make my move. At this point, looking back at all the episodes I would have to watch (nearly 500?), I decided to just jump right into DP. Not sure when or why I started to like Pearlshipping, but it was in there somewhere. I regretted starting with DP as I was quickly nearing the latest episode at the time, so I went back and watched the entire thing. After I was all caught up, I didn't want it to "end" so I kept myself away from it all these years just to build up episodes to binge.
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