|
|
Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 9, 2022 8:37:07 GMT
So, what does everyone think? Came out of nowhere for me...I sat down to watch the episode today without any clue she was gonna be there.
LOVE her new look/outfit! It's her best yet, imo. Maybe because it reminds me so much of Dawn. Same with her new personality...Honestly, is it just me or does she feel like a bland Dawn derivative here? Or has she always been like that in the Japanese version post-haircut?
Zero reference to her crush, which was really refreshing. And it makes sense that it would have subsided with time away from him and staying busy with her dream. But I'm sure the Amour community would disagree, and are probably blowing everything WAY out of proportion and seeing what they want to see, like always.
Ash and Serena's interaction wasn't anything unique or new to this anime. Remember Lillie's goodbye? May's? But even more than that, the ship sailing towards the sunset reminded me of Ash and Dawn's goodbye at the end of DP. Anyone else notice this? Almost everything looks ripped from something else. And the exaggerated camera zoom-ins just like they did the entirety of XY to try to inflate the strength/importance of Ash and Serena's relationship...just, *sigh* When it's done with other characters, like Lillie or Dawn, it feels earned - there's an actual working friendship to back it up. But when it's done with Serena, it just feels like a cheap way to sell Amour moments. Cuz that's how 90% of the fandom takes it, and the writers know this.
Honestly, I want to appreciate how Serena's matured. But it feels hollow, like everything else with this series.  It's hard to shake the annoying fanservicy feel surrounding everything. Ugh, I want this series to hurry up and end!
|
|
Kanto Elite
Posts: 35
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
Badass Punchline: You have self-awareness or you have nothing.
|
Post by coatatopotato on Apr 9, 2022 11:09:44 GMT
JohtoFesta I was almost the exact opposite; I had sat down to watch this episode specifically because I knew Serena was in it. That's why I had a few expectations and it didn't really meet them.
Her new outfit is much better than the old. The new personality is better too, if a bit bland amongst Dawn etc. I had a hard time discerning her personality because the subs were not very accurate. However, the broad impression I get is she's like Dawn but less intense in most aspects of her personality. For example, she's driven, but not as much as Dawn is.
I wouldn't say there was no reference to the crush. The scene where she was standing waiting after the departure of the boat did give off crush vibes. Another thing it reminded me of, as you mentioned, was the scene at the end of DP. With Ash screaming bye from the boat and everything, it was very similar. On the other hand, it wasn't as emotionally deep as the DP scene. I think it was mostly carried by the epic score since it lacked the catchphrase reference etc that DP had.
If they were trying to sell Amour moments in this episode, they didn't do a good job of it. They missed the obvious fanservice: no blushing, no mention of the end of XY. The theory I came up with is that Serena will return again in Journeys. This is a taste-test of whether they feel capable of writing a satisfying return arc. Serena's maturity here suggests to me that if they largely ignored the crush, they could write something where Serena reaches where Dawn was near the end of DP. (Then they'd have to develop Dawn more, here's to hoping  )
Journeys' days may be numbered, but there's still more to come.  |
|
|
|
Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 9, 2022 23:00:14 GMT
coatatopotatoI agree about Serena waiting on the dock. But Amour continues to be a fake veneer put over a weak relationship in order to pander to shippers. Your emphasis on the lack of shallow fanservice and blushy-crushy moments reinforces how the fandom perceives Serena. Besides that, it doesn’t matter what the writers do, Amourshippers will still jump on everything and say it’s proof of a good relationship, as they’ve always done. And yeah, that was nowhere near the depth or emotional weight of DP’s ending. Not to mention, Dawn’s BW reunion and farewell. Serena’s was such a touch and go reunion too. Almost like the writers couldn’t bring themselves to do anything else. It needed to be very quick, cuz there wasn’t anything else for Ash and Serena to share with each other. It was the perfect follow up to that last episode where Ash battled her and gave her advice. I’m reminded this is the only thing they have in common: a generic going after their goals. It’s funny, it’s almost like Ash is aware of this. He loves his friends - wants to be able to get along with and understand everyone. It explains why he was quick to jump on that topic. Cuz that is the only unique schtick about their relationship: they may not have anything else in common, but they do both have goals, so they cheer each other on. Realistically they can’t get much closer than that though. Also I noticed that, just like the escalator scene at the end of XY, they were quick to show these two being pulled away from each other. Seems like a narrative that even the most Amour-biased writers on the team go with. One of them explained (and I forget his name) that it was basically a way of showing Amour is out-of-reach. If or when Serena returns again, they’ll probably have her interact mostly with Chloe, just as Dawn has.
|
|
|
|
Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 9, 2022 23:43:50 GMT
Also, Serena trying to emulate Ash still annoys me a bit. I think she may have quoted Aria once? But all of the other quotes she dropped were Ash’s.
On the one hand, it’s good that Ash has been a role model and inspiration for her. But on the other hand, I feel like she should be more independent and have her own mantra like Dawn, or Clemont, or literally everyone else.
All of Ash’s friends have admired and been inspired by him in some manner. Serena’s the only one who is excessive about it. And no, her crush doesn’t justify it, imo. And it’s not cute. Like, at all. It’s borderline creepy. I guess she’s still gaining an identity and independent thought. Which, I guess, is realistic for (some) young girls. But it’s unhealthy and she needs to grow out of it. But she won’t - this is the character schtick the writers have chosen for her.
Most importantly, it reinforces how she sees Ash as an idol and not an equal. And I can’t see Amour being a compelling, or healthy, relationship. Ever.
|
|
Kanto Elite
Posts: 35
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
Badass Punchline: You have self-awareness or you have nothing.
|
Post by coatatopotato on Apr 10, 2022 4:57:25 GMT
I think the main thing Amour suffers from is being designed from the start to be about Serena's admiration of Ash. This left no other option but to focus on it to the point of excess. I have always found Serena at the start of XY to be a bit creepy, but they developed her a bit differently. The two main facets of her personality are the crush, and her dreams. If the writers could explore the conflict between the two more, there could be an interesting and novel character in Serena.
Also, "blushy-crushy" is my new favorite word. 
I would say that this episode will probably disillusion a fair few Amourshippers (similarly to the Dawn return in Journeys) because it really wasn't that good. From Ash's end, there's nothing that could even remotely be interpreted as him liking Serena.
You're right when you say Ash and Serena don't have much in common. Even in XY, when they spent an extended duration of time together it always got awkward or shippy (or both! ). They have to be pulled apart otherwise it would become apparent how little they have to discuss.
From a meta viewpoint, it's less Ash jumping on any commonality than the writers doing it. They do have to come up with something to pad out the reunion. Amour definitely is out-of-reach. Arguably, it's because the writers prefer to keep it that way to tantalize the fanbase. Plus, the target audience might not appreciate a fully-fledged romance angle, so they try to keep it subtle enough that people who dislike Amour (evidently including you and me ) can simply ignore it.
The writers are really trying to develop Chloe as a character quickly. Given there's not much time left in Journeys, they've got to use the reunions for this purpose as well.
Of course, it all comes back to the age-old debate on the dynamics of relationships in the anime. Serena, more than any other person, is in awe of Ash. Imo, only Dawn sees Ash as a true equal among the travelling-companion-girl-people. And that's why I'm on this board!  |
|
|
|
Post by chloedawn on Apr 10, 2022 16:51:27 GMT
Maybe because it reminds me so much of Dawn. Same with her new personality...
I actually like this Serena more than the original, although it feel a bit Umm... weird?
I don't know how to describe the feeling I have, I actually feel bad for Dawn
Look how Serena character was handled, seems to making big steps towards her dream,
I do appreciate that the staff tried their hardest to perfect/fix Serena, creepy one-sided feeling, blushing crazily, and naive thought which way better than XY series before.
How much respect she was given here.
>Also>>>
"If we meet again next time. I have to be a charming woman."
Her action also change,
Those were her words. She return as promised.
you can say is improved lol
Back in the day, I remember there was a discussion post about:
"Dawn needs to spark Pearlshipping. Just like Dawn has what Serena wants."
Dawn has what serena want, if Serena want to improve their relationship, which was really great for her.
But... it all happened to suddenly?
When I saw this episode, especially, when Serena talk to Chloe about her dream...
"a familiar feel"
that I will never forget forever when I was young, I saw a shadow of Dawn....
this make Dawn different compared to the other girl, that way she chase her dream make her shine/spark
"A girl who really hard-working, determined, and a spirit of never giving up"
I didn't say that Serena or other girl didn't work hard, is just "Who really work hard to hold on to their childhood dream?"
Nowadays, probably everyone was giving up they childhood dream, simple as that for the most part. However, sometimes life just gets in the way, added responsibilities, illness or any number of occurrences that might distract one from achieving a dream.
But, I think the predominant reason is just because people do not have a clear idea of how to go about achieving that which they dream about....
*In Dawn cases*
Her's mom to encourage Dawn, a mentor. She actually can choose other dream like Serena but she didn't.
Although Serena was a different case, Dawn also scared as Serena. At her first contest she is scared that she does not fit to be a coordinator, also her scare of disappointing her mum.
I would think fear would have a lot to do with it. Destructive, negative self talk. Dawn having losing streak in her contest, (DP062 Tanks for the Memories) Dawn remembered these failures and had to excuse herself so she could stop cry. but Dawn is relieved and takes on Zoey's advice, deciding to turn this defeat into a chance to learn.
When we are starting out in our adult life our childhood dream is usually put on the back burner.
For Dawn she didn't always perfect, just like Serena. I understand that Serena not having a clear goal makes her more realistic, is just.....
Serena participated five Pokémon Showcase and won her third Princess key; Not everyone in this world was so lucky,
Can use short amount of time to practise, and get great result....
In real life or Pokémon world is the same, not many of us can have such a good chance to meet perfect Pokémon that already know how to dance, like Serena. You need create opportunities for yourself, like May and Dawn and Ash (yah that guy lol)
and *a female starter and rare female eevee*
Although Dawn's Pokémon team also mostly cute,
There is a Mamoswine:
While he still a Swinub, he was not used very much due to its relative lack of battling and Contest experience.
After evolving Piloswine, He personality drastically changed
but Despite this, Dawn was still eager to train Mamoswine well...
Dawn has a close relationship with every of her Pokémon, her actions go deeper than that though,
they are evidence of her growth as a Trainer and person.
Oops out of topic, anyway XD
Sorry wkwk
Interestingly, there are still some fans who prefer Serena's character more than the shipping,
Glad that she come back. I actually quite feel bad for them.
Because most people are under the influence of Amour community
Actually, there was still evidence of hide Amourshipping hint, is her live contest dress.
*Spoiler*
Decorations on her left foot
(Maybe I shall write in the other post about this)
Also she using XY Ash's quoting words to inspire Chloe which also a hint (more clear)
You can still feel, that she has feeling towards him, but they also matured and it's no longer just a childish crush.
Why every returning companion some kind of development and then there is Dawn? Isn't fair wkwk
The more past character's old Pokémon are revealed to be evolved in JN, the more it make me hate Dawn's whole situation even more.
(Nah, Dawn will be fine hehe)
Dawn feel at the same place as years ago in BW Like she's stuck in the past.
They did Dawn so dirty XD (just my opinion)
I finally finished my writing XD, I accidentally deleted my post when writing halfway through (2 hour) QAQ
In the process of rewriting, I changed it again and spent a lot of time again lol
|
|
|
|
Post by JohtoFesta on Apr 11, 2022 3:46:05 GMT
^This. I was going to mention that too. I just gave the best in-universe excuse I could think of. But yeah, ultimately it's the writers having to give them something.
And that's why, honestly, even this little interaction felt forced to me. Why would Ash think to bring up his competing in the championship...to her of all people? When he didn't say a word about it to his oldest, best friends like Brock, Gary, or of course, Dawn? I don't think he mentioned it to his "Alola family" either, and he clearly has a special camaraderie with them. And why do we get to learn what Serena's up to, but we didn't hear a thing about what Dawn is doing? She has a new contest dress fcol. If they don't utilize her in at least one contest, I will be ticked.
Haha, not mine - picked it up from someone somewhere.
|
|
It's hard to shake the annoying fanservicy feel surrounding everything. Ugh, I want this series to hurry up and end!
)
need a break from that. I cannot express how much more I appreciate fan-translations of anything now