Kanto Elite
Posts: 44
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
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Post by repostedinthewrongneighborhood on Aug 5, 2016 2:43:59 GMT
I hope I don't offend any amourshipping guests with what I have to say. What really bothers me about some of these amourshippers is that a lot of them feel that Serena is entitled to go with Ash to Alola. They feel as if she "deserves" to go to Alola because she is "the best pokegirl" the anime ever had. What doesn't make sense is that every girl in the series (except for probably Iris) has had a huge fanbase always supporting them and has always wanted their girl to continue on to the next region. Why is Serena any different? Does she contribute to the plot nore than previous pokegirls? Does she have a stronger friendship then any of these pokegirls? Does she even have a goal in the anime or is she just eyecandy. I've been saying this for a while, but if Serena didn't have that crush on Ash, most people would rank her behind Iris in terms of likeability. I mean, if you give Serena a second go-around, then they should pretty much give every other anime girl another go around.
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Johto Champion
The Anonymous Gangbanger of the 21st century
Posts: 142
OTP: Hideo Kojima x Guillermo del Toro
Shipping Allegiance: Multishipping
MBTI: INTJ
Badass Punchline: "My legs are OK!"
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Post by *skeltal screeching* on Aug 5, 2016 8:01:10 GMT
everyone wanted their pokegirl to return, so why are amourshippers a special case to be mad about?
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Kanto Elite
Posts: 44
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
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Post by repostedinthewrongneighborhood on Aug 5, 2016 11:32:13 GMT
I know all the other ones had the same amount of support, but I feel like the only reason everybody wants Serena back is more because of the crush than the character itself.
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Johto Champion
The Anonymous Gangbanger of the 21st century
Posts: 142
OTP: Hideo Kojima x Guillermo del Toro
Shipping Allegiance: Multishipping
MBTI: INTJ
Badass Punchline: "My legs are OK!"
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Post by *skeltal screeching* on Aug 5, 2016 13:12:38 GMT
repostedinthewrongneighborhood and the others want their girl to return cause they think that their girl is the best or just like her more than the others. noone has a really good reason for their girl to return.
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Post by satohika on Aug 6, 2016 2:50:55 GMT
On the contrary, we have the strongest case for a hypothetical return of any character. Dawn wasn't a side character but the first female co-star in the series alongside Ash. Yes, there were Ash's league and gym battles but also Dawn's story as well.
For XY we're seeing the same repeat of AG where Ash prefers to train his Pokémon over caring about Serena's goal.
They haven't brought back Iris or Dent and we're this late into the story. It's little more than three months when they make the Sun/Moon series debut. So why are they holding back on them? Unless if it's for ulterior purposes to advance the reason of Ash journeying to Alola.
They're never going to bring Misty back, they made Orangeshipping canon in BW and the only thing they have for her are flashbacks of Charizard or Pikachu.
With Ruby and Sapphire remakes, it's too late for them to bring back May. And that only leaves Dawn.
Serena for the matter was a character rushed at the last minute and it took the staff almost a year to come up with a goal for a useless background character. They still haven't given her much development, her personality is still pretty much 99.99% Amourshipping, Ash still doesn't give a crap about her because they still aren't on the same page, and the best Ash could do is to pretend to share her concerns. This is why I called Amour a trap ship because they know there are a lot of fans who would fall for their Amourshipping bait.
Serena takes the cake for being the most useless companion. And if it weren't for Amourshipping, its popularity would tank. But Japanese aren't fans of Serena, they have plenty of Serena hate threads and how bad XY is. Yes they do have their zealous vocal Amourshippers but they have an overall bad reputation. It's not that Serena doesn't do anything, she does nothing at all for almost a year and after that still doesn't do much for Ash's development. Even Iris and her 'kodomo nee' catchphrase were more than an influence on Ash than Serena's blushes. Cause BW Ash was really like a kid and Iris and even Dawn were pointing out the truth.
What Amourshippers only care about is Serena's blushes and just try to dig through scraps to find one hint of Ash having feelings for Serena. To make this easier on them, he doesn't and never will. Her goal of Kalos Queen is the most narrowest goal compared to the other characters. May just didn't like Pokémon because of how her dad was the gym leader. Dawn had the ambition to be better than her mother. Serena could have been better off as a rhyhorn racer or something. But the way how Serena was handled was just how they don't really care but at the same time it was their Ash version of KenHika or whatever. And they didn't bother giving her six Pokémon like Ash, just three. They could even give her a Piplup or Buneary just to wave the finger to Dawn fans and Pearlshippers.
But they didn't. Rather than thinking of direct references or clues. We piece together seemingly similar but not quite unrelated aspects together. They're in a slump, they could go back to selling more kinds of Piplup toys and partially raise their viewership ratings. But when XY is doing worse than BW, it shows the audience's general disinterest towards Pokémon with all the Serena blushes and Amourshipping troll bait.
So far, none of their Amourshipping sounding title names or elements led to anything significant for Amourshippers. They're still stuck at square one so to speak. I'd hate repeating myself over and over again. Ash and Serena had their spat but so did Ash and Iris; Ash and May; and Ash and Dawn plenty of times.
So I could argue that Dawn was fully developed and have no reason to return. But Ash is just as developed as Dawn because they're equals. But they're throwing all those little things related to Dawn over the years that it's impossible to ignore. They could either bring back Dawn or introduce someone like Dawn but a clone of her in some way. So after the fiasco that was BW, they're trying to avoid enraging their fans. But at the same time they introduce Amourshipping which had the opposite effect of their intent.
But for BW, if the first opening theme had elements of Dawn's speech 'daijoubu' then that could be that Dawn was their first Pokegirl success in Japan. In XY, some Japanese Pearlshippers note that Ash has on occasion somewhat adopted Dawn's catchphrase 'daijoubu' quite a bit in the series. And Dawn remains the strongest influence on Ash out of all the Pokegirls.
They could do anything at this point. So within these three months, we don't know what'll happen next. But it's a 50:50 chance and I feel that Dawn could come back but also not return at the same time. So Amourshippers are the most irrational and the most arrogant like many of the worst of the zealous Pokeshippers.
People often remark that Dawn is a female Ash but it's also apparent that Ash is a male Dawn. Serena may have Dawn's face but she is neither like Dawn nor Ash. They're not on the same level. They've repeatedly stated that Ash and Dawn are equals. Serena is arguably the worst Pokegirl because of her zero-dimensional personality. And DP cushioned the fall of the decline of Pokémon anime, the show was in decline during AG, Johto, BW and XY. Only DP showed some stability in rating and popularity.
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Kanto Elite
Posts: 44
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
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Post by repostedinthewrongneighborhood on Aug 6, 2016 3:20:14 GMT
Well, I think Dawn has to have a legimiate reason to return. Obviously the thing with all of the girls in the anime is that they are still in the process of reaching their dreams. I do think they should bring them back, but only for a certain reason. Honestly, i believe since this is the 20th anniversary this is the best chance of characters like Dawn returning.
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Kanto Elite
Posts: 44
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
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Post by repostedinthewrongneighborhood on Aug 6, 2016 3:26:54 GMT
But like I said in other posts, it really depends on how popular she still is in Japan. And we don't have solid evidence like polls or japanese forums about her popularity.
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Post by satohika on Aug 6, 2016 23:59:48 GMT
Well, I think Dawn has to have a legimiate reason to return. Obviously the thing with all of the girls in the anime is that they are still in the process of reaching their dreams. I do think they should bring them back, but only for a certain reason. Honestly, i believe since this is the 20th anniversary this is the best chance of characters like Dawn returning. Well Dawn's debut happened right around its 10th anniversary. So I feel that they're trying to bring back Dawn but not causing a controversy. In the episodes of Dawn's cameo. The ratings of Pokémon BW season 2 actually increased and managed to stabilize its declining ratings. When Dawn left, their ratings went down and under a decline that is still declining to this day. It's also interesting that during her cameo, the least Pearlshippy episodes were also the least popular cameo episodes. Piplup is still a popular Pokémon in its most recent popularity poll. There was a screenshot I posted up where Piplup is #40, so it's still reasonably popular. Dawn's Piplup made a lasting impact to this day. But like I said in other posts, it really depends on how popular she still is in Japan. And we don't have solid evidence like polls or japanese forums about her popularity. Sorry we don't know of any character popularity polls, but the closest ones are ratings and Pokémon popularity polls. And based on my observations, not bringing back Dawn led to their decline. While there were Dawn centric episodes and they weren't as popular, having Dawn around managed to stabilize its average ratings. So indeed from Johto to Battle Frontier arc of AG, the Pokémon anime was in a sharp decline. The producers decided to introduce Dawn in order to appeal to female Pokémon fans and it worked really well in Japan. Male fans identified with Ash while female fans identified with Dawn. That way they could stabilize their ratings by not pandering to only male fans. So when Dawn left, while there was an initial surge of interest in BW, its ratings fell and fell till Dawn came back to the series. After Dawn left her cameo in BW, the Pokémon show again went into the same rate of decline as it had before DP. But what about Serena? They tried to have a character that is based on a female protagonist like Dawn and May but it backfired on them. Their ratings were still declining, and it was bad or just as worse during Decolora. They wanted to introduce Amourshipping and Pokémon performances but still it didn't stop the decline. From my research on Japanese message boards, while there were some Serena fans, there was general overall dislike of Serena and Amourshipping. Serena didn't manage to attract female Pokémon fans like with Dawn. And because the XY Pokémon ratings declined to the point where we couldn't see the ratings, they fell below the top 10 anime series in Japan. So the best thing they could do is basically bring back Dawn, Piplup and Buneary to the series. Even if XY is a great series, Amourshipping and Serena really killed its chances of regaining its popularity. Right now they have the most picture perfect opportunity for bringing back Dawn. It'll be suicide if they don't. Japanese fans didn't like Iris and they aren't as fond of Serena. But because Dawn has been away for some time, Dawn fans just aren't as vocal as they used to be. They didn't want Iris, they didn't want Serena and they certainly didn't ask for Amourshipping. But their latest official Pokémon popularity poll is still rather not so surprising. Japanese still like Piplup and Buneary is still more popular than more than half of all Pokémon in that poll.
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Johto Trainer
It's already been a year since I registered an account? Wow.
Posts: 91
OTP: Amourshipping
Badass Punchline: Keep eating and eating, and eating... and eating.
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Post by Games23 on Aug 7, 2016 0:26:58 GMT
It'd be kind of cool if Dawn returned because this year is the 10th anniversary for Diamond and Pearl. If they bring her back, I wish Brock would return too, even if it's just a couple of episodes. I think it'd be nice to see the trio reunited.
It makes sense if Dawn was the most popular since she's literally the female version of Ash, and they shared the spotlight.
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Kanto Elite
Posts: 44
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
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Post by repostedinthewrongneighborhood on Aug 7, 2016 3:20:20 GMT
Interesting. Where is the screenshot of the poll that said piplup is #40?
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