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Post by Unarmed Civilian/pokemongeof on May 14, 2015 16:43:07 GMT
To be honest, I love this tiny reference, It shows that Ash still remembers Dawn.
I hope she returns, very much so.
Btw Sphee, I believe i get the reference to your name.
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Hoenn Elite
Okay, round 2 now.
Posts: 389 
Shipping Allegiance: Pearlshipping
MBTI: INFP
Badass Punchline: Some choose to destroy. Others choose to create. Some aid the light. Other ally with darkness, As for myself, I walk the line between the two.
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Post by knightofbalance on May 14, 2015 17:16:09 GMT
NovaStorm or it's just something the writers put in because they didn't know what to do with that scene  They knew what to do about the scene and you know it. Stop trying to antagonize everyone! (Gets in his face) Or should I talk with Icearceus again? |
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Sinnoh Elite
Inactive
Posts: 1,160
OTP: Saimatsu
MBTI: INFP
Badass Punchline: A lone warrior surviving hundreds of battles, when it comes to losing, I'm the strongest.
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Post by PlatinumSun on May 15, 2015 0:36:59 GMT
To be honest, I love this tiny reference, It shows that Ash still remembers Dawn. I hope she returns, very much so. Btw Sphee, I believe i get the reference to your name. What is the reference? |
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Post by Unarmed Civilian/pokemongeof on May 15, 2015 13:57:57 GMT
If i'm correct, Sphee's name comes from a team popular team fortress 2 youtuber, Jerma985, where he calls New players to the spy class "Sphee"
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Post by NovaStorm on May 17, 2015 0:01:48 GMT
Here's my attempt at answering my own question: The real question is whether the Piplup reference means that Ash holds Dawn close to his memory/heart just like her Piplup. Well, since Ash remembers Dawn's Piplup, it shows that Dawn's Piplup was very memorable and had a impact on his journey in both Sinnoh and Unova. Since Dawn's Piplup was memorable, you can then say that everything about Piplup was memorable. And something about Piplup was the trainer who raised it, Dawn. So referenced about Piplup, then we can say that he definitely remembers Dawn to that degree as well. Just think of Piplup as a body part. Say Ash says, "I know someone's hair that's really something else" and it would clearly be Dawn's hair. Just because Ash remembered Dawn's hair doesn't mean he remembered Dawn? You remember who the hair belongs to just like you remember who Piplup belongs to. Yes, Piplup is more standalone than hair, but there's still a high chance that the word "Dawn" was in Ash's mind. Think about how people reference trainers' Pokémon. No one says "the Dragonite"; they show the trainers' ownership by saying Lance's Dragonite or Palmer's Dragonite. Since it's clearly Dawn's Piplup, Ash must have had the name Dawn in his head to process and identify who the Piplup "that's really something else" belonged too. There's no doubt that Ash remembered the word Dawn when he referenced her Piplup. And I think we can all say that if Ash didn't remember Dawn, he wouldn't remember her Piplup either. Combined with the lyrics of High Touch, this definitely means that Ash holds Dawn close to his heart. I just hope the writers choose to remember that. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 9:38:17 GMT
NovaStorm or its just zhe pilup he remembers und zhe rest is just a zheory. Hello Freuleins!
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Post by IceArceus on May 17, 2015 11:14:23 GMT
NovaStorm Ash isn't thick enough to forget Dawn, but that's thinking of him as an actual person. Whether the writers just chose to make that scene a bone to pearlshippers is another matter entirely. So yes, @drmedic, anything beyond the scene is theory.
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Post by NovaStorm on May 18, 2015 1:59:41 GMT
NovaStorm Ash isn't thick enough to forget Dawn, but that's thinking of him as an actual person. Whether the writers just chose to make that scene a bone to pearlshippers is another matter entirely. So yes, @drmedic, anything beyond the scene is theory. So if anything beyond the scene is a theory, then it shouldn't be "Reference to Dawn in XY" but "Reference to Piplup in XY". Yes Ash won't ever forget Dawn but people really want to see this as Pearlshipping. Piplup was definitely popular so the reference makes sense. Hopefully someday they channel that popularity into a return for Dawn to meet with Ash again. |
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Post by IceArceus on May 18, 2015 7:56:17 GMT
We're interpreting it as a reference to Dawn, so it doesn't matter what the thread title is, NovaStorm. To b honest, it's pretty probable that it was referring to Dawn but we can't be certain. As much as I hope they'll channel her popularity, there hasn't been a Dawn reference since that scene and we don't know the motives of the writers and we don't have enough for an informed guess. Pearlshippers will just have to hold out the hope that somehow you're right. |
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Post by satohika on Sept 7, 2016 15:39:37 GMT
I'll compile a list of reasons:
1) The most obvious one is when Hikari implied this isn't the last time we will see her. In the Japanese version of her last BW2 cameo episode, In both the last parts of Hikari's departure, Satoshi nor Hikari ever said 'sayonara' to each other. Last episode of DP, Satoshi said 'Daijoubu'. Last episode of Hikari's cameo, Hikari said, "We'll definitely meet again" and Satoshi replied "See you later". Because her cameo arc wasn't a typical routine, as it lasted nine episodes, it was actually Cynthia/Shirona's appearance in BW2 that allowed the writers to shoehorn in Hikari.
2) Megumi Toyoguchi's interview after the end of Hikari's cameo. She stated that she will definitely return back again as a main cast member, but she never stated when. I was proven wrong when I thought she would return immediately for XY.... but it would not have made sense. Dawn was not meant for Kalos. They had to have the emotional antithesis of Dawn to be introduced, and it was Serena.
3) At least one yearly direct or indirect references to her or her Pokémon in XY. If they wanted people to forget about her, then why bother with all this? They never bother mentioning Kasumi, Haruka and Iris. But only Hikari is treated as special.
-Satoshi mentioning Hikari's Piplup. Serena mentions about how Piplup are so friendly, Satoshi says that there is one Piplup that he knows who can get carried away, since Dawn's Piplup has a different personality.
-Episode about a Buneary in love, but the difference it wasn't Hikari's Buneary.
-Serena and Satoshi riding on a Mamoswine
-XY&Z 5 after-credit appearance showing Hikari and Piplup, it was about Cresselia vs Darkrai episode.
-While Rotom isn't her Pokémon, one of the 'scary Pokémon' listed on their official website had a reference to the Rotom episode in DP. They happened to have a screenshot featuring Ash, Dawn and Brock. And I think another one with Pikachu and Piplup. There was also an XY Rotom episode.
4) Serena's character being an inverse to Hikari's character as well as some similarities.
-Serena's introduction being visually similar to Hikari's introduction
-Aria/Elle being the same as Zoey/Nozomi, they could never win against them but at least got second place
-Tierno as the equivalent of Conway/Kouhei
-Hikari being career-focused as opposed to Serena being not so career-focused
-People in Sinnoh and Unova commenting on the bond between Satoshi and Hikari as opposed to people in Kalos noticing Serena's crush and telling her to act on it
-The appearance of Millefeuille, she had blue hair but red tsundere eyes and short hair. She acts as Serena's equivalent of Lyra/Kotone.
-Pearlshipping and Amourshipping having opposite strengths and weaknesses, and they play a role in the character development of Hikari and Serena.
-Hikari learned how to cook from her mother and how to cook and take care of sick Pokémon from Takeshi, Serena bakes and makes dessert goods but also learned how to ride Rhyhorn from her mother.
-Both have a passion for fashion, but Hikari designs clothes and Serena is a tailor. Makes you wonder whether they would form a fashion team together.
5) Potential for Sinnoh remakes in Gen 7. There are signs that next year or the year after will have remakes for the Diamond and Pearl games. The preorder bonus for Sun/Moon is Munchlax, a Gen 4 Pokémon. There are also plenty of subtle references to the colors of Dialga and Palkia as well as anything related to Diamonds and Pearls.
6) Hikari has never had a change in her Pokémon roster nor her outfit. She also seems to still have loose ends in the series, with her Ambipom still in training. The other main characters don't have that luxury to be hinted to remain in the cast. This feels similar to Serena who still has only three Pokémon in her roster, and has a changed outfit and hairstyle to make her into more of an anime original character.
7) In terms of relationship as to why the other girls won't return:
Iris is following a Rayquaza she saw in Johto to see where it leads to. Iris was closer to Cilan than to Satoshi, to the point they both noted Satoshi's closer relation with Hikari.
May is canonically implied to have paired off with Drew, despite a few advance hints regarding the ribbon.
Misty developed a stronger relation to Tracey, and by the time of end of BW, Oak said that Tracey was away in Cerulean Gym at Misty's invitation.
Thus that leaves Hikari and Serena.
Now against these points are:
1) Sun/Moon merchandising never point to anything related to Hikari, but nothing related to Serena either. This is pretty much the smoking gun. Because why would they promote anything related to Kalos or Sinnoh? Unless... We got Zygarde and Munchlax in Alola, references to both Gen 6 and Gen 4 in Gen 7.
2) The possibility for Serena not to remain in the cast. But this is unlikely, as in the Japanese version states she wants to see what lies ahead with her own eyes. That means Serena is very likely to remain in the main cast. Clemont and Bonnie are stated to definitely leave at the end of the series, but who will take their place? Because if only Serena remains, that means they are making Amour implied canon, but when they haven't really have much development aside from blushes, spilled spaghetti and of course, clueless dense Satoshi. It just wouldn't make sense not to bring back Hikari to balance it all out and push character development for Satoshi, Hikari and Serena. There will also be a major announcement for next week. People think Serena replaced Hikari, but this would not be the case.
3) Making Amour canon. Still ridiculous considering how much development it's gotten, there isn't much. While Serena's feelings for him may have gotten stronger, she still is rather set in her passive ways. Only with the presence of her antithesis, Dawn can help break these habits.
The move for having both of them is not only symbolic. Hikari's names have to do with the Sun and she is a Gen 4 character. Serena's name is based on a lunar goddess and she is a Gen 6 character. Because Gen 7 will have Gen 4 remakes and is in many ways a continuation of Gen 6, there is more reason to include both of them. The revival of Hikari's character in Gen 7 represents Sinnoh remakes. The continuation of Serena onto Gen 7 represents a continuity from Kalos to Alola.
People will be surprised by all this, but we saw it coming. Not everyone likes Hikari and not everyone likes Serena but at least a compromise can be struck because in the end they'll be casted as the best of friends.
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need a break from that. I cannot express how much more I appreciate fan-translations of anything now